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Post by Siggy's Tar Dust® on May 16, 2017 22:28:30 GMT -8
I don't think there's any creator I pursued more aggressively over the last three years than Starlin. I haunted him at nearly every con he went to. I'm glad I did.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 5:43:45 GMT -8
I don't think there's any creator I pursued more aggressively over the last three years than Starlin. I haunted him at nearly every con he went to. I'm glad I did. ...? |
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Post by Ditch Fahrenheit on May 17, 2017 6:16:09 GMT -8
Yeah, now that he's explained himself a little better I think I understand where he's coming from. I like that he's willing to sign for free. And it sounds like he'd be pleased as punch to sign your books...especially on the splash.  Seems CGC SS customers/Starlin fans who want their keepers in slabs are going to lose out. That's unfortunate if this takes hold. Yeah, although I support Starlin (now that I know more of the facts) if he decides to boycott the CGC SS process. This is really bad press for CGC. It not only puts a spotlight on how they treat their customers and comic book artists, but the efficacy of the whole SS program. How can they guarantee something if they aren't there to witness the signing? The entire process has giant holes in it. |
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Post by Stu on May 17, 2017 9:13:43 GMT -8
I met Jim 15 years ago in Seattle, I've got plenty of his sigs  |
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Post by Stu on May 17, 2017 9:32:03 GMT -8
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Post by Ditch Fahrenheit on May 17, 2017 9:49:37 GMT -8
Wow. This thing is getting bigger by the day. From Jim Starlin |
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Post by Siggy's Tar Dust® on May 17, 2017 9:58:20 GMT -8
I, and I imagine many, would be curious to see who in the Con attending Creator community supports and apposes this. I can see up and coming artists/writers staying out of it because they're still trying to make a name for themselves. Creators on Starlin's level are more apt to feel what he's feeling. He sure is being tenacious. CGC blew it by not even hinting that they'd help locate the guy on their own, and so avoiding any violations of policies while showing Starlin his due appreciation and due consideration for what he's done for the industry, and as a result what he's done for CGC. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking CBCS's SS program is going to be flooded. Let's see if they learn from other's mistakes. This time. How Starlin would be able to tell if someone would keep a book or flip it, I don't know. It doesn't really seem as though that's the problem, because the same thing goes on at CBCS (some fans slab/keep, some slab/sell). Thanks for the links, Ditch  |
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Post by Ditch Fahrenheit on May 17, 2017 10:30:01 GMT -8
I think there's significant risk to ANY comic book signature witness program here.
Areas of Risk
A) Other artists come forward with more stories of unwitnessed signatures.
B) Collectors start to question the high population of multiple signature 9.8 books.
If you're an investor-collector, you need to do your own research just like you would when investing in a stock.
If you're strictly a collector, then it doesn't matter as long as you're willing to pay these prices and you don't care if they collapse over time.
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Post by Ditch Fahrenheit on May 17, 2017 17:33:39 GMT -8
 Missed the point completely...but still funny.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 21:20:53 GMT -8
Seems CGC SS customers/Starlin fans who want their keepers in slabs are going to lose out. That's unfortunate if this takes hold. Yeah, although I support Starlin (now that I know more of the facts) if he decides to boycott the CGC SS process. This is really bad press for CGC. It not only puts a spotlight on how they treat their customers and comic book artists, but the efficacy of the whole SS program. How can they guarantee something if they aren't there to witness the signing? The entire process has giant holes in it. Not that I necessarily disagree, but...in this case, the witness is the creator. That's always been CGC's policy, since the very beginning. The creator signing is always considered a de facto witness. That's why things like mail-aways work. The creator sends the books to the facilitator, and/or CGC directly, and they act as the witness. So, in this case, Starlin was the witness...and before this nonsense...and Starlin's reaction is really quite ridiculous...Starlin could have said "yes, I signed that", and it would count, so long as chain of custody was preserved. But Starlin has always been a weird dude. |
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Post by Ditch Fahrenheit on May 18, 2017 7:16:13 GMT -8
Yeah, although I support Starlin (now that I know more of the facts) if he decides to boycott the CGC SS process. This is really bad press for CGC. It not only puts a spotlight on how they treat their customers and comic book artists, but the efficacy of the whole SS program. How can they guarantee something if they aren't there to witness the signing? The entire process has giant holes in it. Not that I necessarily disagree, but...in this case, the witness is the creator. That's always been CGC's policy, since the very beginning. The creator signing is always considered a de facto witness. That's why things like mail-aways work. The creator sends the books to the facilitator, and/or CGC directly, and they act as the witness. So, in this case, Starlin was the witness...and before this nonsense...and Starlin's reaction is really quite ridiculous...Starlin could have said "yes, I signed that", and it would count, so long as chain of custody was preserved. But Starlin has always been a weird dude. Yeah, I'm aware of that. Never agreed with the 'Verbal COA' approach to witnessing. |
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Post by Siggy's Tar Dust® on May 18, 2017 8:32:04 GMT -8
Not that I necessarily disagree, but...in this case, the witness is the creator. That's always been CGC's policy, since the very beginning. The creator signing is always considered a de facto witness. That's why things like mail-aways work. The creator sends the books to the facilitator, and/or CGC directly, and they act as the witness. So, in this case, Starlin was the witness...and before this nonsense...and Starlin's reaction is really quite ridiculous...Starlin could have said "yes, I signed that", and it would count, so long as chain of custody was preserved. But Starlin has always been a weird dude. Yeah, I'm aware of that. Never agreed with the 'Verbal COA' approach to witnessing. I don't like that either. I imagine it wasn't always that. Someone probably realized thay could make more and faster money, and then rationalized that books don't have to be "witnessed" per se.  Does this mean I can bring all 300+ books Mike signed to SD, and if he said to a witness, "Yeah, I signed these," they'll accept it? There was a time I was told "No." |
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Post by Ditch Fahrenheit on May 18, 2017 9:43:55 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm aware of that. Never agreed with the 'Verbal COA' approach to witnessing. I don't like that either. I imagine it wasn't always that. Someone probably realized thay could make more and faster money, and then rationalized that books don't have to be "witnessed" per se. Does this mean I can bring all 300+ books Mike signed to SD, and if he said to a witness, "Yeah, I signed these," they'll accept it? There was a time I was told "No." Theoretically, yes. But then you'd have to change your forum name to 'Mr. Plastic.' |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 9:57:41 GMT -8
Not that I necessarily disagree, but...in this case, the witness is the creator. That's always been CGC's policy, since the very beginning. The creator signing is always considered a de facto witness. That's why things like mail-aways work. The creator sends the books to the facilitator, and/or CGC directly, and they act as the witness. So, in this case, Starlin was the witness...and before this nonsense...and Starlin's reaction is really quite ridiculous...Starlin could have said "yes, I signed that", and it would count, so long as chain of custody was preserved. But Starlin has always been a weird dude. Yeah, I'm aware of that. Never agreed with the 'Verbal COA' approach to witnessing. But it's not a Verbal COA. If the creator maintains custody of the book...and they're the one signing it...the book goes from them to CGC and/or a witness. The creator isn't handing the book back to Joe Blow, and THEN saying "yeah, I signed this." In that case, for sure, the sig isn't valid. But if I hand the creator an unsigned book...walk away...and come back several hours later with a witness, and the creator then hands it over in front of the witness...that's maintaining chain of custody. The creator is the witness for their own signature. Yes, a creator might be handed a book by someone that's already signed, or "signed", and the creator could collude with that person, and say "oh, yeah, sure, I totally signed this"...totally possible...but not very likely. There are other ways to cheat that don't require the "creator as colluder" scenario. Just like I could sign a copy of Hulk #393, and have it yellow labeled any time I want...I have a letter published in there, and CGC will do that if requested. Don't need a witness for that, because I am the "creator" in that instance. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 10:02:00 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm aware of that. Never agreed with the 'Verbal COA' approach to witnessing. I don't like that either. I imagine it wasn't always that. Someone probably realized thay could make more and faster money, and then rationalized that books don't have to be "witnessed" per se. Does this mean I can bring all 300+ books Mike signed to SD, and if he said to a witness, "Yeah, I signed these," they'll accept it? There was a time I was told "No." Sure, but that would require collusion on Mike's part, and the witness would theoretically ask Mike if the books had been in his possession the entire time since he signed them, and I don't think Mike would lie about that. Yes, a creator COULD do that, sure...but that puts them in a position that I don't know that a lot of creators would be willing to go. Besides...they could simply sign/sketch over the existing sig, and voila! Problem solved. |
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Does this mean I can bring all 300+ books Mike signed to SD, and if he said to a witness, "Yeah, I signed these," they'll accept it? There was a time I was told "No."