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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 9, 2021 8:25:43 GMT -8
If anyone listens to podcasts, this is a great one. Recent interview with 2 experts (Dr. Filippa Lentzos) about the nature of the origin of the virus and published yesterday.
Ironically, this interview is only a few days old but these are the closing statements from the interview, which was made just days before the WHO investigation concluded in Wuhan.
Dr. Filippa Lentzos: "I think from this current investigation we'll learn some new things but I don't think we'll get proof of origins.
It's too late for that. It's too politicized. The terms of reference for this investigation are just too politicized. I don't think well get any particular proof. I think we'll be dealing with probabilities and likelihoods at the end of the day."
Interviewer: "You mean forever. We'll never know."
Dr. Alina Chan: "I'm a little bit more optimistic. But I do think that's a strong probability that we just won't know for sure.
But I do think there is a lot to be investigated, not just in China but outside of China and it's really just up to international leaders now whether they have the will to set up parallel investigations rather than just the WHO and Lancet investigations. I think there is a lot of information that we can find, the question is to we want to find that information or not?"
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Post by barry on Feb 9, 2021 16:44:09 GMT -8
I'm trying to keep and open mind but I'm highly suspicious. I don't trust the WHO for many reasons. But if they are covering up a lab leak or worse I think other scientists will eventually find out. This is too big of an issue.
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Post by barry on Feb 9, 2021 16:46:34 GMT -8
Some good news.
Pfizer hopes to cut vaccine manufacturing time by almost half
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 9, 2021 18:28:32 GMT -8
I'm trying to keep and open mind but I'm highly suspicious. I don't trust the WHO for many reasons. But if they are covering up a lab leak or worse I think other scientists will eventually find out. This is too big of an issue. Obviously I don't know a ton about virology investigations like this but I do know a lot about diagnostic work and problem solving and it's going to be REALLY tough to find evidence when you have all of these roadblocks to contend with
1) we're a year out now - think about that...a frigging YEAR!
2) China seems intent on obfuscating facts - on this there is little dispute
3) the entire wet market area has been scrubbed and sanitized a year ago (and China did say that NONE of the animals there had the virus and there was hardly any covid residue found there except at sewer entries)
4) any records or clues in the lab could easily have been erased or cleaned - not beyond China to do that
5) one of the lead hands of the entire investigation has been intent on proving that it was a naturally evolved virus from a natural source - there is a MASSIVE conflict of interest here and if 1) - 4) don't make you worry this one is enough to discredit the entire investigation IMO
And you're right, your point about not trusting the WHO is just another fly in the ointment....too many factors that should not happen in the real world for someone who wants the truth.
I just don't see how anyone can get any real facts from an investigation when you have all of these things working against you.
The only way I can think of is if we discover some new technology at some point that allows people to see the genome in a more detailed way (I know, this is in the area of science fiction now) OR that at some point someone comes up with a genetic sequence that matches the genome in Covid-19 from a lab record that has to date not yet been logged publicly...and THAT is a real possibility according to Alina Chan, as there are many genomes that get recorded and then forgotten or not logged publicly.
Sort of like remembering you had the recipe to your mom's secret chocolate chip cookies and nobody thought to look behind the big box of cereal that has been sitting on the top shelf for 4 years.
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 10, 2021 7:36:31 GMT -8
I'm trying to keep and open mind but I'm highly suspicious. I don't trust the WHO for many reasons. But if they are covering up a lab leak or worse I think other scientists will eventually find out. This is too big of an issue. So, preliminary articles are summarizing that the virus 'likely did not escape from a lab' and that evidence 'points towards animal origin'.
This lines up perfectly with what Dr. Fillipa Lentzos predicted when she said that due to heavy politicization of the investigation and how much time has passed, we likely will never know the actual origin of the virus.
Peter Daszak being a lead investigator on the team is like having a dealer grade their own books at CGC before selling them.
An important point to bring up from the news is that some WHO investigators are actually more honest than Daszak who seems to be butt kissing to preserve his multi-million dollar grants.
From a news article: Danish epidemiologist and team member Thea Kolsen Fischer appeared to break ranks, revealing after the briefing that they were not given raw data and instead relied on analyses by Chinese scientists.
So not only is Daszak's role exactly like being a dealer while grading his own books at CGC, he's using someone else's description of the books to grade them and not even seeing the books themselves in hand. If only everyone were as honest as this Dutch investigator.
It's so pathetic it's not even worthy of a SNL skit let alone a world class investigation into the largest humanitarian crisis ever to affect human life on earth.
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 10, 2021 8:50:39 GMT -8
The short version of this article is that some immune compromised patients who have trouble fighting off Covid infections have the same infection in their body for extended periods of time and scientists have found mutations happening within the body of the infected person over an extended periods.
Scientists are starting to lean towards the theory that the mutations happening around the world may be happening in people who have long term infections, as were observed in the one man in the article.
I can see news taking this one way: We need to lock down harder until everyone is vaccinated
The way I see it: Healthy people with strong immune systems fare best against this virus
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parker1865
TCBF Member
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 1,325
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Post by parker1865 on Feb 10, 2021 10:35:53 GMT -8
your last 2 [posts would be crucified on the cgc wc. when the supposed all important news was posted by bob and banner, there was no wtf. so, i posted. it is so obvious that it was gobbledegobbledness, yet the usual crowd is all over this, and of course took a hit at you. it is just not possible to have a discussion there, or to voice an opinion that will not be seen by certain members/moderators as a problem. i decided after the horrendous treatment of david and micro, and the mods allowing the the bs to continue by the obvious members claiming shill, etc..... all an outright intended lie designed to silence other members.... that there is no value in being there or commenting at all. there is a point when a person decides what is at odds with personal standards. i have finally reached that point. if all members are not to be treated equally, then the entity (cgc) is responsible. when moderators are involved in the same behavior that others are chastised for....and selective moderation based on the acceptability of the members the moderator has an affinity toward..... then there is no reason to support the organization in any manner. the reason i bring up your last 2 posts, is because the information in your posts is timely, important, and has (and has had) impacts on other economic and healthcare issues for some time. it is not unknown, and there is serious $ at stake, for healthcare entities and the average person seeking healthcare in any setting, and government coffers. it is not about trump or biden or clinton or obama. that is all just diversion bs. but, when this can not be openly discussed without consequences and ridicule and belittling and condescending attitudes toward the person expressing their view and sharing, that is not acceptable, to me, and certainly no more, after the 500 bull  . i have come to appreciate this forum, and don't mind at all that i may not be a favorite member to ditch. what i do admire, is that ditch supports free speech. i don't mind stu or his bites. he has the same right to free speech as anybody else. i can live with that. besides, stu should be happy that i don't care anymore about the wack-a-mole game. maybe cgc deserves it, i don't know, because i don't know all the background of cgs/stu saga, nor do i care. i think sooner or later, like minded persons from cgc will start posting here, because of the acceptance by ditch of free speech. that will be very healthy for the boards here, and will offer a very good alternative. what exactly does cgc do for anyone, really? other than milk the grading market, nothing, as far as i can see. i don't see how their forum offers anything of greater value to collectors or dealers, at all. their ngc arm is and always was a disaster (yes stu, i know-die coinee) and has slowly gone the way of the ostrich. |
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 10, 2021 11:05:05 GMT -8
1) your last 2 [posts would be crucified on the cgc wc. when the supposed all important news was posted by bob and banner, there was no wtf. so, i posted. it is so obvious that it was gobbledegobbledness, yet the usual crowd is all over this, and of course took a hit at you. 2) it is just not possible to have a discussion there, or to voice an opinion that will not be seen by certain members/moderators as a problem. i decided after the horrendous treatment of david and micro, and the mods allowing the the bs to continue by the obvious members claiming shill, etc..... all an outright intended lie designed to silence other members.... that there is no value in being there or commenting at all. there is a point when a person decides what is at odds with personal standards. i have finally reached that point. if all members are not to be treated equally, then the entity (cgc) is responsible. when moderators are involved in the same behavior that others are chastised for....and selective moderation based on the acceptability of the members the moderator has an affinity toward..... then there is no reason to support the organization in any manner. 3) the reason i bring up your last 2 posts, is because the information in your posts is timely, important, and has (and has had) impacts on other economic and healthcare issues for some time. it is not unknown, and there is serious $ at stake, for healthcare entities and the average person seeking healthcare in any setting, and government coffers. it is not about trump or biden or clinton or obama. that is all just diversion bs. but, when this can not be openly discussed without consequences and ridicule and belittling and condescending attitudes toward the person expressing their view and sharing, that is not acceptable, to me, and certainly no more, after the 500 . 4) i think sooner or later, like minded persons from cgc will start posting here, because of the acceptance by ditch of free speech. that will be very healthy for the boards here, and will offer a very good alternative. what exactly does cgc do for anyone, really? other than milk the grading market, nothing, as far as i can see. i don't see how their forum offers anything of greater value to collectors or dealers, at all. their ngc arm is and always was a disaster (yes stu, i know-die coinee) and has slowly gone the way of the ostrich.
1) What is hilarious is that some of the same people who have argued conflicts of interest in other areas such as CGC having an in house pressing AND grading service in the same building are arguing that Daszak is NOT a conflict of interest when investigating a lab he's had $10's of Millions of dollars invested in.
Some of those same people were also happy to pounce on me 13 years ago when I tried to push support for having a common blue label for restored and unrestored books the way CBCS has done because I thought it was beneficial for the hobby as a whole but they screamed at me that I was biased and motivated only by money. Here I am 13 years later and I've probably only ever sold 5 restored books in my entire life and yet now they'll just buy Daszak's findings hook like and sinker even when WE HAVE CLEARLY established that he's heavily invested in pushing his narrative. It's so pathetic. 
More importantly, they're saying that Daszak is unbiased even when members of his own team and credible experts in the field don't believe he is. 
It's just effing crazy town over there and just an extension of the same, biased, cancel culture and media censorship that will eventually effect them as well.
It actually at times makes me want to give up hope in society as a whole and just move to a deserted island and live my life in peace rather than actually care about what happens around me.
2) I agree. And if anyone really wanted to take it upon themselves they'd probably have a very reasonable case for CGC allowing the level of harassment that they have been allowing. Their moderation is about as unbiased as a scientist investigating a leak into a lab where he had $100MIL invested.
3) Of course I know why it's important. It's important to know who to charge for the damage, starting with reparations if China did indeed cover it up (most people don't realize that there are several law suits happening over this), on a federal level who to bill and locally how to handle it. The only people who wouldn't think it's important are people who don't understand how the world works.
500Club did say that knowing whether the virus leaked from a lab or not wouldn't help us fight the current pandemic RIGHT NOW but apparently the answer was above his education level because acc to Heather Heying, an evolutionary biologist knowing where the virus originated not only helps understanding the virus to quicker build a vaccine (duh, that's not rocket science) but also understand better how the virus behaves and allow for handling the pandemic more effectively.
But I don't expect any of them to admit they were ever wrong. They just perpetrate more of the same partisan game that is literally destroying the world as we speak.
4) I keep hoping they do but I don't see it happening. I've invited our group and several others and they don't seem to want to make the jump.
And quite honestly, while I would love it if more people were hear I would NOT want only like minded to join because then you end up with the exact problem we've ended up in the Watercooler. A Gestapo that is in lockstep with each other.
You never see progress or learn anything interesting when everyone still agrees.
You know one thing I do find comfort in? I've always found being a parent a great teacher for me.
One day their own children may read some of the stuff these people on the CGC forum have written and that will be an interesting conversation to have to explain why they acted the way they did.
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 10, 2021 11:20:49 GMT -8
Cue a half dozen people from the CGC boards trotting over here to see what you and I wrote!
Gawd, it's so pathetic. Any person with any real integirty would have a reasonable conversation about it rather than act like cowards and then just go back and bash on a site where the moderation is stacked against them and their hands are literally tied with a bullseye on their backs.
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parker1865
TCBF Member
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 1,325
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Post by parker1865 on Feb 10, 2021 12:09:57 GMT -8
Cue a half dozen people from the CGC boards trotting over here to see what you and I wrote!
Gawd, it's so pathetic. Any person with any real integirty would have a reasonable conversation about it rather than act like cowards and then just go back and bash on a site where the moderation is stacked against them and their hands are literally tied with a bullseye on their backs.
that is ok. it makes my recent post, well......fact. after all, isn't fact and scientific proof at the top of the judgment list? im a scientist, again, i am a scientist, again, you are not, so i am factual and you are not. "in my healthcare university, did i mentions i run the research laboratory that is considered the finest in the world (que straightening back and furious typing), my colleagues and i (list a name or 2 for emphasis and snobbery points) have published many studies on my specialties, and i myself have written most of them, in fact i wrote all of them and an underling typed them (raise nose toward the air and sniffle) and i don't plagiarize because i use only big words that i know because of my superior research and i have every right to use sources from other sources because i taught all of the other scientists and they are really plagiarizing me because they recognize i am the superior factual scientist and i have the absolute knowledge to impress upon you your inadequacy (frown and tilt head slightly left or right). i am the only person here with absolute authority to decide what somebody can posts and i will be certain to ridicule you because i am infallible. ask my followers...500, banner (que banner saying yea, he has been doing this for 800,000 years of recorded history), sparky ( oops, that is supposed to be janet), paperheart (que paperheart asking the wizard for a new heart), and my admirers that i helped not die because i fought for them to get health insurance (here list in descending order: 40,000/35,000/30,000/25/000) and only i could fabricate this injustice on the cgc and get away with it, and....lastly, my #1 admirer comicdonna, my personal moderation guard." "now, count the # of i's and my's, and if it is not enough, i will add more from my historical life and accomplishments, and my pictures that prove i am a worldly person and i am admired the world over. so, who are you gg, or any of you other bottom feeders to challenge my position or that of my followers"? |
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parker1865
TCBF Member
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 1,325
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Post by parker1865 on Feb 10, 2021 12:27:09 GMT -8
also, and i could be wrong, the very recent post (by stu?) in the moderation section was very good. it helps draw more people here. i gave the post a trophy.
because, what was quoted is fact, and because it is timely.
if it was not stu, whomever posted it good job.
now, it may have been posted in some nefarious intent to embarrass roy, but it still serves ditch's forum well, because it will draw traffic.
good job.
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 10, 2021 12:41:17 GMT -8
also, and i could be wrong, the very recent post (by stu?) in the moderation section was very good. it helps draw more people here. i gave the post a trophy. because, what was quoted is fact, and because it is timely. if it was not stu, whomever posted it good job. now, it may have been posted in some nefarious intent to embarrass roy, but it still serves ditch's forum well, because it will draw traffic. good job. Oh yeah? I missed that. What did he post?
Is he copying posts from here and posting them over there? |
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parker1865
TCBF Member
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 1,325
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Post by parker1865 on Feb 10, 2021 12:42:04 GMT -8
yes.
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 10, 2021 12:47:21 GMT -8
Cue a half dozen people from the CGC boards trotting over here to see what you and I wrote!
Gawd, it's so pathetic. Any person with any real integirty would have a reasonable conversation about it rather than act like cowards and then just go back and bash on a site where the moderation is stacked against them and their hands are literally tied with a bullseye on their backs.
that is ok. it makes my recent post, well......fact. after all, isn't fact and scientific proof at the top of the judgment list? im a scientist, again, i am a scientist, again, you are not, so i am factual and you are not. Any scientist that openly accepts the WHO investigation in Wuhan as unbiased and impartial just doesn't know what science is.
You might be able to analyze facts but you can't differentiate good facts from bad facts.
In this regard, I give high praise to Alina Chan and others who have stood out almost alone putting thier necks on the line to push for non-partisan truths and answers to the pandemic.
I think it's highly possible that this WHO mission was just another political campaign put on by the WHO (and likely China and possibly the US) to smooth things over as quickly as possible and get back to business as usual, and that is the business of hoodwinking and making money.
Maybe one day we'll know what really happened, but it's not gong to come from the mainstream where virtually no new ideas or thinking comes from.
Historically, the majority of progress has come from the fringe and outside edges of the mainstream, while the mainstream mocked and shamed them.
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Post by vintagecomics on Feb 10, 2021 12:51:40 GMT -8
This world would be so great if everyone could just stop hating messengers and discuss the message. That's all I ask. Nothing more.
I'd be happy to have an open and polite conversation with anyone on here or anywhere else where there are less worries about moderation and more of an arena to actually build bridges but most would rather it be kept in the public arena of the CGC forum where moderators will keep a close watch and the mob is readily at hand.
Cowards.
And having been through this several times already, MOST of these people never act like this in person when you face them in public. Only on the internet.
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