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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 15:55:42 GMT -8
You're taking things out of context. The God you picture in your head that you think is the God of the bible is not the one that's in my head. So the reason why we see different things is where the real answers are. He purposely hardened pharoah's heart so he could punish him. This is not rocket science. Thats a dick move. Like everyone else always does, you are taking this phrase out of it's context and by doing so, changing it's intended meaning. God said this AFTER Pharaoh had already been asked, and AFTER he decided to not let the slaves go. How would you deal with someone who was asked "please let me people, your slaves go?" and they refused not to and instead mocked you for asking? |
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 15:57:16 GMT -8
I'm not sure that Paul's letters actually exist, though. Well I know that the original letters of Paul aren't known to exist anymore - just like Plato's original writings don't exist anymore, with the oldest copy of Plato's work being written some 1,300 years after Plato died. Excellent example. Few question Plato's existence while the same people are questioning Jesus' existence.  |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:57:47 GMT -8
I remember one time hearing Carl Sagan, trying to debunk the Bible, say something to the effect (only paraphrasing here): "If God existed, why didn't he put into the Bible something that only scientists would discover millennia later, like something about how 'Life is built on a spiraling staircase' - it would mean nothing to biblical writers, but today we'd see it as prophetic evidence of knowledge about DNA that the biblical-era people couldn't possibly know or make up".  Carl wanted just one thing - something like a "spiral staircase is the key to Life" being an indication of pre-knowledge of DNA helix. How about the Big Bang Carl?? Genesis describes the instantaneous creation of the universe as light and energy suddenly when before there was only darkness "formless and empty". Welp, that's pretty much what the Big Bang theory states now too. Meh, I guess some people will never believe even when they get what they ask for. God exists all right and there are signs everywhere. But one of the things he gives us is to create our reality with our beliefs. Dont believe in God and you will never see him-ever. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:59:59 GMT -8
Well I know that the original letters of Paul aren't known to exist anymore - just like Plato's original writings don't exist anymore, with the oldest copy of Plato's work being written some 1,300 years after Plato died. Excellent example. Few question Plato's existence while the same people are questioning Jesus' existence. Socrates never floated on water and stuff and he talked about things that are instantly verifiable. Thats why he is more believable. Nothing in the bible is verifiable. |
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Post by jcjames on Mar 15, 2023 16:00:22 GMT -8
He purposely hardened pharoah's heart so he could punish him. This is not rocket science. Thats a dick move. Like everyone else always does, you are taking this phrase out of it's context and by doing so, changing it's intended meaning. God said this AFTER Pharaoh had already been asked, and AFTER he decided to not let the slaves go. How would you deal with someone who was asked "please let me people, your slaves go?" and they refused not to and instead mocked you for asking? When a person is ultimately condemned to eternal separation from God ("hell" or death), there is no return. God accepts that decision or act of rejection by the person and there is no turning back from that. God finishes his judgement against him and from that point on, the person has no recourse. They have had THEIR rejection and separation from God made eternal in their heart. "Hardening his heart" is the accepting as permanent judgement by God the condemnation that comes from rejecting and separating from God. |
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Post by jcjames on Mar 15, 2023 16:02:15 GMT -8
Excellent example. Few question Plato's existence while the same people are questioning Jesus' existence. Socrates never floated on water and stuff and he talked about things that are instantly verifiable. Thats why he is more believable. Nothing in the bible is verifiable. Please, read Strobel's "Case for Christ". |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 16:04:01 GMT -8
Like everyone else always does, you are taking this phrase out of it's context and by doing so, changing it's intended meaning. God said this AFTER Pharaoh had already been asked, and AFTER he decided to not let the slaves go. How would you deal with someone who was asked "please let me people, your slaves go?" and they refused not to and instead mocked you for asking? When a person is ultimately condemned to eternal separation from God ("hell" or death), there is no return. God accepts that decision or act of rejection by the person and there is no turning back from that. God finishes his judgement against him and from that point on, the person has no recourse. They have had THEIR rejection and separation from God made eternal in their heart. "Hardening his heart" is the accepting as permanent judgement the condemnation that comes from rejecting and separating from God. No-god did the separation. He hardened pharoah's heart. Its all on him. For all we know pharoah would have converted if god softened his heart. I definitely would want to be eternally separated from a dude like this god-pls. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 16:04:24 GMT -8
Socrates never floated on water and stuff and he talked about things that are instantly verifiable. Thats why he is more believable. Nothing in the bible is verifiable. Please, read Strobel's "Case for Christ". I try to avoid propaganda. |
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 16:10:22 GMT -8
Excellent example. Few question Plato's existence while the same people are questioning Jesus' existence. Socrates never floated on water and stuff and he talked about things that are instantly verifiable. Thats why he is more believable. Nothing in the bible is verifiable. So because it says Jesus floated on water, you're saying the Bible is not reliable. But the Bible is considered the most reliable ancient book by secular scholars for it's archeological and historical evidence. So you're going to have to explain that one. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 16:11:52 GMT -8
Socrates never floated on water and stuff and he talked about things that are instantly verifiable. Thats why he is more believable. Nothing in the bible is verifiable. So because it says Jesus floated on water, you're saying the Bible is not reliable. But the Bible is considered the most reliable ancient book by secular scholars for it's archeological and historical evidence. So you're going to have to explain that one. floated on water, turned water into wine, cured the sick-all kinds of magic tricks. Reliable? youve gotta be kidding me. |
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Post by jcjames on Mar 15, 2023 16:17:05 GMT -8
Please, read Strobel's "Case for Christ". I try to avoid propaganda. Strobel, a famed investigative journalist in the 70's, started out as a staunch atheist investigating the historical records in order to debunk the resurrection. His work ended up converting him from atheism to Christianity. It's what he found and his story, not propaganda. But... it's up to you. I thought you might find it interesting since you make some of the same claims as he was. |
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 16:20:28 GMT -8
So because it says Jesus floated on water, you're saying the Bible is not reliable. But the Bible is considered the most reliable ancient book by secular scholars for it's archeological and historical evidence. So you're going to have to explain that one. floated on water, turned water into wine, cured the sick-all kinds of magic tricks. Reliable? youve gotta be kidding me. I've never seen you. I've decided you're not real. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 16:21:17 GMT -8
I try to avoid propaganda. Strobel, a famed investigative journalist in the 70's, started out as a staunch atheist investigating the historical records in order to debunk the resurrection. His work ended up converting him from atheism to Christianity. It's what he found and his story, not propaganda. But... it's up to you. I thought you might find it interesting since you make some of the same claims as he was. People who 'converted' are the biggest sources of propaganda. "I used to be a conservative-" and whatnot. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 16:22:18 GMT -8
floated on water, turned water into wine, cured the sick-all kinds of magic tricks. Reliable? youve gotta be kidding me. I've never seen you. I've decided you're not real. If this is a serious response and not a joke you will have to take back all that stuff about being imminently logical. |
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 16:25:31 GMT -8
I've never seen you. I've decided you're not real. If this is a serious response and not a joke you will have to take back all that stuff about being imminently logical. It's sarcasm to prove my point and your logic tree is broken on this discussion. There is much more evidence to prove that the historical person of Jesus existed than there is that Kav exists, and yet I accept that Kav exists. So logically... OK, I've wasted enough time today posting here. Gotta move onto other things! |
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