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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 15:02:35 GMT -8
Sorry. Spellcheck. I obviously meant SECOND LANGUAGE. That depends on WHEN the flood happened (and how many people there were alive at that time), WHERE the flood happened (could it have been localized to an area?), and what the land looked like when that l flood happened (like what if it happened during Pangaea)? Like I said. Lots of variables and like in politics, everyone is pushing an angle as their truth. But the point is-what about the people on the rest of the earth? why arent they mentioned in the bible? God didnt notice them? If they didnt get flooded then they must have been exemplary-why no mention of these fine folks? It just makes the story sound fake, like someone testifying in court who leaves out large important details. I do speak a second language. Because the bible is not meant to be a comprehensive history book. It's meant to be a historical record of things pertaining to God and his interactions with mankind through the perspective of the people he was interacting with. Everyone needs to understand that what the Bible brings to the table is limited in scope, that the people who tried to translate it had their limitations with the info or knowledge they had and that you will have your own limitations in trying to understand it. Like Government, question everything, be honest about your intentions and if you're serious and honest, you'll find the answers you want. Or even need. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:07:26 GMT -8
But the point is-what about the people on the rest of the earth? why arent they mentioned in the bible? God didnt notice them? If they didnt get flooded then they must have been exemplary-why no mention of these fine folks? It just makes the story sound fake, like someone testifying in court who leaves out large important details. I do speak a second language. Because the bible is not meant to be a comprehensive history book. It's meant to be a historical record of things pertaining to God and his interactions with mankind through the perspective of the people he was interacting with. Everyone needs to understand that what the Bible brings to the table is limited in scope, that the people who tried to translate it had their limitations with the info or knowledge they had and that you will have your own limitations in trying to understand it. Like Government, question everything, be honest about your intentions and if you're serious and honest, you'll find the answers you want. Or even need. I would think a book by god would have some mention of how the people who did not deserve to get wiped lived out would matter somewhat. A bit more than who was sleeping with whom for example. |
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 15:07:33 GMT -8
Kav, your argument is flawed. You're saying that they STARTED writing accounts around 300 years after Jesus died but that's flawed because historically, Ancient Hebrews wrote everything down all the time. Do some research. The first written accounts of the new testament occurred 300 years after the death of christ. If you've stumbled across some earlier dead sea scrolls or something put them on ebay for god sake. No, I'm saying we don't have written accounts from prior to 300AD because they are old and not well preserved, and rare and hard to find. If they were, we'd be finding Dead Sea Scrolls all over the place (I believe they go from 300BC to 100AD). But scholars who study etymology study how the message has changed with clues within the messages themselves. Kind of like identifying who a board member really is even after he's put a lot of effort into trying to hide his identity.  I have done my research for nearly 30 years. This was my life for a while. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:09:33 GMT -8
Do some research. The first written accounts of the new testament occurred 300 years after the death of christ. If you've stumbled across some earlier dead sea scrolls or something put them on ebay for god sake. No, I'm saying we don't have written accounts from prior to 300AD because they are old and not well preserved, and rare and hard to find. If they were, we'd be finding Dead Sea Scrolls all over the place (I believe they go from 300BC to 100AD). But scholars who study etymology study how the message has changed with clues within the messages themselves. Kind of like identifying who a board member really is even after he's put a lot of effort into trying to hide his identity. I have done my research for nearly 30 years. This was my life for a while. Well I just cannot swallow the Bible. Illogical and inconsistent AF. Written 50 to 100 years after the events by either very old men or completely other dudes who werent there. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:10:14 GMT -8
Just imagine biden writing it for example.
"I remember korn pop-he was a bad dude-"
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Post by jcjames on Mar 15, 2023 15:27:05 GMT -8
That doesn't make sense. The earliest letters of the New Testament (1 Thessalonians, Galations & 1 Corinthians written by Paul) were written less than 20 years after the crucifixion. The earliest of the four Gospels (Mark) was written 30-40 years after the crucifixion. And the last Gospel (John) also written no later than around 100AD around the time of John's death. By that time, the eye-witness Apostles had already begun spreading far and wide across the Mediterranean and Asia minor with oral-preaching of these same accounts for the first few decades after the crucifixion. If one suggest that these accounts "were written 300 years later" because that's the oldest surviving papyrus available, then that is absurd - akin to thinking that Plato's writings can only date back to about the 900ADs because that's the oldest document of his writings we have - written 1300 years after Plato lived. That's not the way historical writings are dated. By the late 90ADs to the early 100ADs the Apostolic teachings were already well established, both orally and in writing. The writings of Ignatius & Polycarp (disciples of John the Apostle) and Clement and the Didachye, all written just as the original Apostles were being killed, were not written based on stories made up in 300AD. The last time I researched this I found the 300 year figure. Now this is what pops up: The New Testament has 27 books, written between about 50 and 100 AD. Not 20 or 30 years. Anyway I've dealt with people-someone telling a story that happened even 5 years ago bears no resemblance to the truth. The earliest three letters written by Paul are dated 45-53AD, 20 years after the crucifixion (33AD). Dozen people, scattered all across the known world, all telling the same events and teachings that they witnessed and written down by themselves or own disciples as they started to become martyred. Paul's letters didn't come out of nothing 20 years later - and they all recount the same essential truths - Christ lived, taught repentance, performed miracles, was crucified, died, resurrected, commissioned his disciples to preach the Gospel, ascended and then they were empowered with the Holy Spirit. I definitely recommend "Case for Christ", these are among of the most historically-supported documents and accounts of any events in any part of the world from the 1st Century. |
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 15:28:38 GMT -8
No, I'm saying we don't have written accounts from prior to 300AD because they are old and not well preserved, and rare and hard to find. If they were, we'd be finding Dead Sea Scrolls all over the place (I believe they go from 300BC to 100AD). But scholars who study etymology study how the message has changed with clues within the messages themselves. Kind of like identifying who a board member really is even after he's put a lot of effort into trying to hide his identity. I have done my research for nearly 30 years. This was my life for a while. Well I just cannot swallow the Bible. Illogical and inconsistent AF. Written 50 to 100 years after the events by either very old men or completely other dudes who werent there. That's like saying "I can't swallow what the Republicans are saying. It's a hot mess and all BS" but you're only listening to CNN. Meanwhile, you and I know that some Republicans do good jobs but their perception is skewed by CNN. I have learned that MOST Christian religions are like news corporations, and that each has their own angle to push leading you towards them. And I've also learned that the deeper I dig the less illogical and inconsistent it is. The inconsistencies come from all the various news stations. Or religions. And your statement about how they preserved history is completely inaccurate. If your city gets nuked and all evidence of you ceases to exist, does that mean you never existed? |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:31:15 GMT -8
Well I just cannot swallow the Bible. Illogical and inconsistent AF. Written 50 to 100 years after the events by either very old men or completely other dudes who werent there. That's like saying "I can't swallow what the Republicans are saying. It's a hot mess and all BS" but you're only listening to CNN. Meanwhile, you and I know that some Republicans do good jobs but their perception is skewed by CNN. I have learned that MOST Christian religions are like news corporations, and that each has their own angle to push leading you towards them. And I've also learned that the deeper I dig the less illogical and inconsistent it is. The inconsistencies come from all the various news stations. Or religions. And your statement about how they preserved history is completely inaccurate. If your city gets nuked and all evidence of you ceases to exist, does that mean you never existed? Well not exactly. If a politician says something completely absurd you just roll your eyes. When the bible says moses asked god to free his people and god said ask pharoah to release your people-I will harden his heart so he says no then I'll get 'im-I'll kill his kid and all the first born of egypt! That'll fix his clock!, I just roll my eyes. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:31:45 GMT -8
And the bible is full of goofy  like this. believe it if you want-I dont. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:36:03 GMT -8
If you wanna worship a god that would do something like that have at it. Personally I would just call him a jackass.
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 15:40:12 GMT -8
The last time I researched this I found the 300 year figure. Now this is what pops up: The New Testament has 27 books, written between about 50 and 100 AD. Not 20 or 30 years. Anyway I've dealt with people-someone telling a story that happened even 5 years ago bears no resemblance to the truth. The earliest three letters written by Paul are dated 45-53AD, 20 years after the crucifixion (33AD). Dozen people, scattered all across the known world, all telling the same events and teachings that they witnessed and written down by themselves or own disciples as they started to become martyred. Paul's letters didn't come out of nothing 20 years later - and they all recount the same essential truths - Christ lived, taught repentance, performed miracles, was crucified, died, resurrected, commissioned his disciples to preach the Gospel, ascended and then they were empowered with the Holy Spirit. I definitely recommend "Case for Christ", these are among of the most historically-supported documents and accounts of any events in any part of the world from the 1st Century. I'm not sure that Paul's letters actually exist, though. But manuscript copies of them exist. This copy and paste below is from here: biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/15/the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts/The earliest and most famous Greek New Testament manuscript is the Ryland Papyrus P52, currently on display at the John Rylands University Library in Manchester, UK. It was purchased in 1920 by Bernard Grenfell on the Egyptian antiquities market. However, it wasn’t really “discovered” until 1934 when it was translated by C. H. Roberts. Three of the leading papyrologists in Europe to whom Roberts sent photos of the fragment to dated it from A.D. 100-150, although most scholars today would use a wider date range of the second century in general.------------------------------------------------------------------They study and compare it to other manuscript pieces and accounts from other parts of the world to determine their accuracy. And you can extrapolate some things and still be reasonably accurate. Kind of like how scientists have theorized on the evolution of man even though all the evidence is not available |
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Post by vintagecomics on Mar 15, 2023 15:41:46 GMT -8
And the bible is full of goofy like this. believe it if you want-I dont. You're taking things out of context. The God you picture in your head that you think is the God of the bible is not the one that's in my head. So the reason why we see different things is where the real answers are. |
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Post by kav on Mar 15, 2023 15:44:27 GMT -8
And the bible is full of goofy like this. believe it if you want-I dont. You're taking things out of context. The God you picture in your head that you think is the God of the bible is not the one that's in my head. So the reason why we see different things is where the real answers are. He purposely hardened pharoah's heart so he could punish him. This is not rocket science. Thats a dick move. |
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Post by jcjames on Mar 15, 2023 15:49:56 GMT -8
I remember one time hearing Carl Sagan, trying to debunk the Bible, say something to the effect (only paraphrasing here): "If God existed, why didn't he put into the Bible something that only scientists would discover millennia later, like something about how 'Life is built on a spiraling staircase' - it would mean nothing to biblical writers, but today we'd see it as prophetic evidence of knowledge about DNA that the biblical-era people couldn't possibly know or make up".  Carl wanted just one thing - something like a "spiral staircase is the key to Life" being an indication of pre-knowledge of DNA helix. How about the Big Bang Carl?? Genesis describes the instantaneous creation of the universe as light and energy suddenly when before there was only darkness "formless and empty". Welp, that's pretty much what the Big Bang theory states now too. Meh, I guess some people will never believe even when they get what they ask for. |
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Post by jcjames on Mar 15, 2023 15:54:06 GMT -8
The earliest three letters written by Paul are dated 45-53AD, 20 years after the crucifixion (33AD). Dozen people, scattered all across the known world, all telling the same events and teachings that they witnessed and written down by themselves or own disciples as they started to become martyred. Paul's letters didn't come out of nothing 20 years later - and they all recount the same essential truths - Christ lived, taught repentance, performed miracles, was crucified, died, resurrected, commissioned his disciples to preach the Gospel, ascended and then they were empowered with the Holy Spirit. I definitely recommend "Case for Christ", these are among of the most historically-supported documents and accounts of any events in any part of the world from the 1st Century. I'm not sure that Paul's letters actually exist, though. But manuscript copies of them exist. This copy and paste below is from here: biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/15/the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts/The earliest and most famous Greek New Testament manuscript is the Ryland Papyrus P52, currently on display at the John Rylands University Library in Manchester, UK. It was purchased in 1920 by Bernard Grenfell on the Egyptian antiquities market. However, it wasn’t really “discovered” until 1934 when it was translated by C. H. Roberts. Three of the leading papyrologists in Europe to whom Roberts sent photos of the fragment to dated it from A.D. 100-150, although most scholars today would use a wider date range of the second century in general.------------------------------------------------------------------They study and compare it to other manuscript pieces and accounts from other parts of the world to determine their accuracy. And you can extrapolate some things and still be reasonably accurate. Kind of like how scientists have theorized on the evolution of man even though all the evidence is not available Well I know that the original letters of Paul aren't known to exist anymore - just like Plato's original writings don't exist anymore, with the oldest copy of Plato's work being written some 1,300 years after Plato died. |
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like this. believe it if you want-I dont.
