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Post by kav on Jan 16, 2023 16:54:03 GMT -8
lets say a student triggered by the word marshmallow because of their 'religion'. cater to that? nope. when you cater to personal sensibilities aside from legal stuff like pornography/threats and whatnot where does it end? It doesnt. Maybe if the college instructor sent out a questionnaire at the beginning of class, asking all students to list any and all words, images, ideas, sounds, smells and anything else that is offensive to them, so that the faculty could then go through their curriculum and remove, redact, blur-over, cover and eliminate all of those things which anyone in the class may be offended by. I mean, maybe there's a student who suffers terribly from a paralyzing form of cynophobia, yet wants to become a veterinarian, why should this poor helpless student be subjected to images, discussions and activities that include dogs just because she has a documented disability that prevents her from even being shown an image of a goldendoodle? Isn't there an adult in the room to put a stop to such terrible behavior by the instructor - forcing disabled students to do things they are simply not capable of doing? Or maybe there's a student who belongs to the Westboro Baptist Church, why should that poor student have to sit in the same class with someone who might be homosexual, and not be allowed to express their views on the matter? Oh the huge manatee!! plus there's the fact that the wokeness gets to pick and choose who gets to be offended. Christian? Nope, sorry. muslim? step right this way!!!! omg! |
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 16, 2023 17:54:34 GMT -8
Bottomline - the instructor is not obliged to cater to the particular religious beliefs of any Muslims in a "Global Art History" class and alter the curricula to not show any artistic images of Mohammed any more than a medical school is obliged to cater to the religious beliefs of pro-life Christians and not teach about or even discuss abortion. If the student didn't want to make a fuss, well, she did the exact opposite. She could have showed she had sincere religious beliefs and got up and walked out - the country would have never known her name, but instead she showed she had sincerely thin skin and made a mountain out of a molehill, demonstrating this was not about her private beliefs but about her desire for retribution and (possibly) publicity. Zod lays it all out, but still you attribute the teacher's actions to the student/s. The adult tasked with the care of the presumably less responsible proves she is anything but; the roles reversed. Same  , different thread.  You laid out your personal, unsubstantiated opinion about the intent of the professor. This is called "guilty until proven innocent". Something that goes against all Western, Democratic principles which operate on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty". Sabine women for the win.  In the larger dumpster fire, nobody won, and as usual, nearly every human has failed to grasp the issues, including the Muslims calling for Prater's rehiring. A good teacher places the needs and well-being of their students above all else. Everybody wins when discussion is open and in the forefront. This is how Freedom always wins. It's the very embodiment of freedom. The opposite, curtailing the discussion, crushes academic freedom. A good teacher will never cater to the needs of just one student at the expense of the rest of the class. Their job is to share knowledge and the student's job is to pick and choose which knowledge they want to assimilate. I'm happy to see that jcjames and kav both agree. Otherwise you eventually end up with something like this: |
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 16, 2023 18:40:34 GMT -8
Edited my first reply because I had it backwards.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 22:46:19 GMT -8
Zod had thought to include this specific painting in his post, but it was already of epic length, so refrained. (Low-hanging fruit to be sure, so easily plucked.) In the larger dumpster fire, nobody won, and as usual, nearly every human has failed to grasp the issues, including the Muslims calling for Prater's rehiring. A good teacher places the needs and well-being of their students above all else. The arsonist Prater continues to revel in the flames. student triggered by a non pornographic picture's well being would best be served by getting them to be not so delicate and triggered tho. not healthy. dont cater to mental disturbance. Arsonist professor trolling students, university, Muslims worldwide for fun and profit. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 22:47:13 GMT -8
lets say a student triggered by the word marshmallow because of their 'religion'. cater to that? nope. when you cater to personal sensibilities aside from legal stuff like pornography/threats and whatnot where does it end? It doesnt.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 22:49:03 GMT -8
hey my religion is offended by teachers being fired for showin an art pic-wut abt me?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 22:53:47 GMT -8
Zod lays it all out, but still you attribute the teacher's actions to the student/s. The adult tasked with the care of the presumably less responsible proves she is anything but; the roles reversed. Same , different thread. This is college. They're both adults. Only one is acting like an adult (instructor) and one is acting like a spoiled child (student). "the presumably less responsible"  Oh my!! Such a presumption of irresponsibility and immaturity you have towards the student! College faculty are not "tasked with the care of" adults who act like children, they're tasked with providing an opportunity for adults to learn high levels of knowledge, skills, critical thinking and communication in specialized fields of study and then assessing their level of achievement towards those goals. Do they not have colleges and universities on Krypton? Shame if they don't. I don't know how it is on your planet, but here on Earth, in 21st Century America, college students are expected to be responsible for their own thoughts and feelings and understand that the world does not revolve around nor cater to their personal likes, beliefs and preferences. The world doesn't care what the individual thinks or feels - and adult humans know this, but toddler humans don't and instead tend to have temper-tantrums when they don't get what they want. The unthinking knee-jerk reaction of Hamline administration was to fire the instructor. But now, thoughtful responses from all over academia as well as Islamic cultural institutions are rallying in support of the instructor and against Hamline for their anencephalic knee-jerk reaction. YMMV. Trolling teacher sets university ablaze, conservatives rejoice because Muslim/Woke-hate. Zod despises those who commit arson, whether on the right or left, and whatever their alleged cause. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 22:57:11 GMT -8
lets say a student triggered by the word marshmallow because of their 'religion'. cater to that? nope. when you cater to personal sensibilities aside from legal stuff like pornography/threats and whatnot where does it end? It doesnt. Maybe if the college instructor sent out a questionnaire at the beginning of class, asking all students to list any and all words, images, ideas, sounds, smells and anything else that is offensive to them, so that the faculty could then go through their curriculum and remove, redact, blur-over, cover and eliminate all of those things which anyone in the class may be offended by. I mean, maybe there's a student who suffers terribly from a paralyzing form of cynophobia, yet wants to become a veterinarian, why should this poor helpless student be subjected to images, discussions and activities that include dogs just because she has a documented disability that prevents her from even being shown an image of a goldendoodle? Isn't there an adult in the room to put a stop to such terrible behavior by the instructor - forcing disabled students to do things they are simply not capable of doing? Or maybe there's a student who belongs to the Westboro Baptist Church, why should that poor student have to sit in the same class with someone who might be homosexual, and not be allowed to express their views on the matter? Oh the huge manatee!! Illogical/absurd analogies. But Zod understands that humans have adapted under a Yellow Sun, and cannot be expected to think or behave as anything but earthlings. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 23:00:09 GMT -8
Maybe if the college instructor sent out a questionnaire at the beginning of class, asking all students to list any and all words, images, ideas, sounds, smells and anything else that is offensive to them, so that the faculty could then go through their curriculum and remove, redact, blur-over, cover and eliminate all of those things which anyone in the class may be offended by. I mean, maybe there's a student who suffers terribly from a paralyzing form of cynophobia, yet wants to become a veterinarian, why should this poor helpless student be subjected to images, discussions and activities that include dogs just because she has a documented disability that prevents her from even being shown an image of a goldendoodle? Isn't there an adult in the room to put a stop to such terrible behavior by the instructor - forcing disabled students to do things they are simply not capable of doing? Or maybe there's a student who belongs to the Westboro Baptist Church, why should that poor student have to sit in the same class with someone who might be homosexual, and not be allowed to express their views on the matter? Oh the huge manatee!! plus there's the fact that the wokeness gets to pick and choose who gets to be offended. Christian? Nope, sorry. muslim? step right this way!!!! omg! If you're not encountering offended Christians on a regular basis, you're either not getting out enough, or your observation is selective. Just two weeks ago Zod saw a Christian woman verbally attack a Muslim woman, offended by her head scarf. What was it Gandhi said...? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 23:02:08 GMT -8
Edited my first reply because I had it backwards. More editing may be in order.  |
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 16, 2023 23:54:50 GMT -8
Edited my first reply because I had it backwards. More editing may be in order. Sure. I'll add this: I have a debilitating trigger. True story. I don't expect anyone to change anything because of it. I deal with it privately. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 0:58:33 GMT -8
More editing may be in order. Sure. I'll add this: I have a debilitating trigger. True story. I don't expect anyone to change anything because of it. I deal with it privately. I appreciate your sharing this, especially as you're sincerely presenting it as sensible refutation of my points. Unfortunately, it is not. My rape and Holocaust analogies ARE, however, excellent examples of known areas of sensitivity to large groups of people, as are depictions of the Prophet of Islam. Women, Jews and Muslims (and various combinations thereof) are known to have a profoundly negative reaction to insensitivity in these areas. Analogies pertaining to marshmallows, veterinary medicine and so forth are ridiculous. If one has a trigger which is uncommon (many people actually do), one must make their own best decisions about how to navigate various situations. In the instance of trolling Professor Prater, as with situations involving rape and the Holocaust, far larger numbers are likely to be affected, and these sensitivities are well-known. Zod prefers thoughtful individuals to arsonists and trolls. Thank you for your mindful contribution, Vin.  |
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 17, 2023 10:51:47 GMT -8
Sure. I'll add this: I have a debilitating trigger. True story. I don't expect anyone to change anything because of it. I deal with it privately. I appreciate your sharing this, especially as you're sincerely presenting it as sensible refutation of my points. Unfortunately, it is not. My rape and Holocaust analogies ARE, however, excellent examples of known areas of sensitivity to large groups of people, as are depictions of the Prophet of Islam. Women, Jews and Muslims (and various combinations thereof) are known to have a profoundly negative reaction to insensitivity in these areas. Analogies pertaining to marshmallows, veterinary medicine and so forth are ridiculous. If one has a trigger which is uncommon (many people actually do), one must make their own best decisions about how to navigate various situations. In the instance of trolling Professor Prater, as with situations involving rape and the Holocaust, far larger numbers are likely to be affected, and these sensitivities are well-known. Zod prefers thoughtful individuals to arsonists and trolls. Thank you for your mindful contribution, Vin. So you're saying majority rules on what is allowable as opposed to sticking to well established principles to determine what is allowed? That sounds exactly like Liberal / leftist ideology and is illogical. In fact, it's something CGC Mike would have said about how the CGC boards are moderated.  NO group should be able to impose their triggers on a country where freedom of speech and freedom of expression is the #1 priority above all else. Why is it a priority? Because without these freedoms society immediately starts necessarily leaning towards tyranny. Immediately. You are either fighting to keep your ever diminishing freedoms or you are losing them. Whether they are images of the holocaust, of rape or any other "offensive" images, they can't be censored under Western concepts of freedom of speech. The academic classroom is no exception. Any compromise on this freedom will by extension compromise freedom in general. And anyone who DOESN'T want to see such images is free to leave, using that same freedom.
Compromising the freedom to express will necessarily, eventually compromise the freedom to leave. That's how the logic works. Your logic conflicts itself at every turn when you work it through to it's logical conclusion. And if you compromise academic freedom you compromise progress of ideas. Anything else is just a compromise of the freedoms we've fought for in Western civilization. That's really the end of the conversation. |
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Post by jcjames on Jan 17, 2023 11:33:38 GMT -8
This is college. They're both adults. Only one is acting like an adult (instructor) and one is acting like a spoiled child (student). "the presumably less responsible" Oh my!! Such a presumption of irresponsibility and immaturity you have towards the student! College faculty are not "tasked with the care of" adults who act like children, they're tasked with providing an opportunity for adults to learn high levels of knowledge, skills, critical thinking and communication in specialized fields of study and then assessing their level of achievement towards those goals. Do they not have colleges and universities on Krypton? Shame if they don't. I don't know how it is on your planet, but here on Earth, in 21st Century America, college students are expected to be responsible for their own thoughts and feelings and understand that the world does not revolve around nor cater to their personal likes, beliefs and preferences. The world doesn't care what the individual thinks or feels - and adult humans know this, but toddler humans don't and instead tend to have temper-tantrums when they don't get what they want. The unthinking knee-jerk reaction of Hamline administration was to fire the instructor. But now, thoughtful responses from all over academia as well as Islamic cultural institutions are rallying in support of the instructor and against Hamline for their anencephalic knee-jerk reaction. YMMV. Trolling teacher sets university ablaze, conservatives rejoice because Muslim/Woke-hate. Zod despises those who commit arson, whether on the right or left, and whatever their alleged cause. Zod, Zod, Zod... {smh} For well over 500 years images of Muhammad have been depicted throughout Persian and Turkish (Ottoman empire) art composed BY Muslim scholars, historians and artists of both Sunni and Shia sects. This is part of the "global history of Art", especially within the Islamic world. Not all Muslims forbid images of Muhammad, and so just because some (not even most) Muslims don't want to see Muhammad depicted in art does not mean that such depictions of centuries-old Islamic art BY Islamic artists within the context of a college class on art or within the context of a museum display are "trolling" or akin to arson. Seriously, since the Metropolitan Museum of Art, as part of Islamic historical art, also depicts paintings of Muhammad such as this one (" The Night Flight Of Muhammad") as well as others, should the Museum Director of The Met also be fired for being an "arsonist" like you think this Art professor is? |
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Post by kav on Jan 17, 2023 14:59:38 GMT -8
Trolling teacher sets university ablaze, conservatives rejoice because Muslim/Woke-hate. Zod despises those who commit arson, whether on the right or left, and whatever their alleged cause. Zod, Zod, Zod... {smh} For well over 500 years images of Muhammad have been depicted throughout Persian and Turkish (Ottoman empire) art composed BY Muslim scholars, historians and artists of both Sunni and Shia sects. This is part of the "global history of Art", especially within the Islamic world. Not all Muslims forbid images of Muhammad, and so just because some (not even most) Muslims don't want to see Muhammad depicted in art does not mean that such depictions of centuries-old Islamic art BY Islamic artists within the context of a college class on art or within the context of a museum display are "trolling" or akin to arson. Seriously, since the Metropolitan Museum of Art, as part of Islamic historical art, also depicts paintings of Muhammad such as this one (" The Night Flight Of Muhammad") as well as others, should the Museum Director of The Met also be fired for being an "arsonist" like you think this Art professor is? people see what they want to see and nothing will deter them. |
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, different thread. 
Oh my!! Such a presumption of irresponsibility and immaturity you have towards the student! 
