Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 16:16:57 GMT -8
So, slight pun in the title, but ever since the 90's, the art of telling a story with the art has gone on the wayside.
Editors used to hire artists not because of how aesthetically pleasing their art was, but how well they told the story.
Lots of people...I mean LOTS of people...can draw pinups. The real skill is in telling that story.
I believe it was Denny O'Neil who said "if I can't tell what's going on without the dialogue, you didn't do your job."
Famously, Byrne and Aparo worked together on the "almost silent" Batman #433, a masterwork of storytelling.
Miller, especially when he was doing Daredevil, was also a master storyteller.
It's sad to see, but these days, we have two entire generations who were raised on Rob Liefeld, and his "pinup" philosophy...so he could sell more pages for more money on the aftermarket. And that's really a shame.
No doubt, there are some quality storytellers out there working today...Adlard on Walking Dead is one of them...but the ability to tell a story with pictures...sequential art, as Eisner described it...seems to be a lost art these days.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 21:02:20 GMT -8
So, slight pun in the title, but ever since the 90's, the art of telling a story with the art has gone on the wayside. Editors used to hire artists not because of how aesthetically pleasing their art was, but how well they told the story. Lots of people...I mean LOTS of people...can draw pinups. The real skill is in telling that story. I believe it was Denny O'Neil who said "if I can't tell what's going on without the dialogue, you didn't do your job." Famously, Byrne and Aparo worked together on the "almost silent" Batman #433, a masterwork of storytelling. Miller, especially when he was doing Daredevil, was also a master storyteller. It's sad to see, but these days, we have two entire generations who were raised on Rob Liefeld, and his "pinup" philosophy...so he could sell more pages for more money on the aftermarket. And that's really a shame. No doubt, there are some quality storytellers out there working today...Adlard on Walking Dead is one of them...but the ability to tell a story with pictures...sequential art, as Eisner described it...seems to be a lost art these days. I like this post. No, actually, I LOVE this post.    |
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Post by Jeffro on Feb 28, 2017 3:57:56 GMT -8
Editors used to hire artists not because of how aesthetically pleasing their art was, but how well they told the story. This explains how so many mediocre artists got jobs drawing comics The only issue with this is that when art is not aesthetically pleasing it affects the storytelling. If I can't look at it, then I ain't reading it. (Frank Robbins, for example) Of course, when you get a guy like Liefeld whose work is not aesthetically pleasing and he can't tell a story then it's a massive confluence of suck |
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Post by steveinthecity on Feb 28, 2017 4:52:46 GMT -8
Would it be fair to draw the conclusion that decompressed stories have contributed more so to "pin up" style panels or pages? That's a trend that really irks me. I'm not sure why younger readers don't notice it and complain.
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Post by Jeffro on Feb 28, 2017 7:13:34 GMT -8
I can't say. I always attribute it back to the Image guys and the Image-ization of comic books that happened around this time. I haven't read a modern Marvel or DC superhero book in probably 15 years and I have zero desire to read them.
Everything that I loved about comic books and those universes in the bronze/copper ages seems gone now and not coming back any time soon. Add the cover prices into it and it's just another nail in the coffin for me. I think Bill Jemas is to blame.
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slym2none
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Post by slym2none on Feb 28, 2017 19:44:29 GMT -8
Remember when people criticized Chris Claremont for being so verbose? I loved those stories, and hated it when whomever it was that first decided to take every story and draw it out to 6 issues in length, using lots of splash pages & filler art to make up for the fact there is only 2 (maybe 3) issue's worth of story so it could fit into the TPB format. I actually remember TBP's that were 6 issues long but had 2 or 3 stories in each one. Or even trades of collected stories. Now, it's 6 issues worth of art that I can read in about 15-20 minutes on average.  |
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Post by Jeffro on Mar 1, 2017 4:24:41 GMT -8
Go read a Byrne FF from the 80s. Just a few words... I really miss comics from the 80s  I miss the way they looked. I miss the stories. I miss the continuity. You can take modern superhero comics and shove them where the sun don't shine |
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Post by Siggy's Tar Dust® on Mar 1, 2017 20:35:51 GMT -8
I'm irritated when they use the exact same art panel consecutively multiple times, usually as a "comedic" pause or to illustrate the passage of time. If the relatively few moderns I've seen are any indication, it's used too often. More often than not I think it's a cover for the lack of story. Absolutely nothing bugs me like caving in and buying a new comic, sitting back to read it, and finishing minutes later  |
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Post by Prince Namor on Mar 1, 2017 23:05:25 GMT -8
I dislike the 90's Image artist way of doing things, as I think it messed up the traditional storytelling style for mainstream comics.
However, I don't believe an artist HAS to necessarily work in that form to do the job correctly.
As an example, many of the artist's that both Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman have used on different projects throughout their careers, complemented the story more with mood and creative imagery to complement the story, than outright showing what was written.
(Though they both have shown they can work within the traditional mode as well).
I don't think modern comics do very well with either way these days, though they certainly believe they lean toward the traditional still. Most of the really good storyteller/artist... Sean Phillips, uh... Marcos Martin... uh... anyway they generally tend to gravitate toward the independent comic scene...
Of course there's Romita Jr., who, despite what we think of his work these days, does still tell the story pretty clearly in his art...
But yeah... I think those Inage guys ruined it.
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slym2none
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Post by slym2none on Mar 1, 2017 23:42:13 GMT -8
I used to buy my comics & sit at a rest-area & read them. I only bought X-Men titles for the most part, & it would take me an hour or more to read them. As time passed, it became more about the art & less about the story and I became disinterested.
FML, right?
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Post by steveinthecity on Mar 4, 2017 0:11:40 GMT -8
I used to buy my comics & sit at a rest-area & read them. I only bought X-Men titles for the most part, & it would take me an hour or more to read them. As time passed, it became more about the art & less about the story and I became disinterested. FML, right? No. I agree I read comics. I don't collect groupings of mini posters. |
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Post by steveinthecity on Mar 4, 2017 0:19:24 GMT -8
Go read a Byrne FF from the 80s. Just a few words... I really miss comics from the 80s I miss the way they looked. I miss the stories. I miss the continuity. You can take modern superhero comics and shove them where the sun don't shine If you can find trades of them, I thought Hickman's Fantastic Four was well written and harkened back to previous decades as far as multiple plot points being visited over time. Another is the Waid/Samnee run on Daredevil that has a 60's vibe to it. There's still some good ones out there, but not consistently imo. |
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Post by Jeffro on Mar 4, 2017 14:56:50 GMT -8
Go read a Byrne FF from the 80s. Just a few words... I really miss comics from the 80s I miss the way they looked. I miss the stories. I miss the continuity. You can take modern superhero comics and shove them where the sun don't shine If you can find trades of them, I thought Hickman's Fantastic Four was well written and harkened back to previous decades as far as multiple plot points being visited over time. Another is the Waid/Samnee run on Daredevil that has a 60's vibe to it. There's still some good ones out there, but not consistently imo. The problem is I miss the continuity and the shared universe. I can't stand the endless relaunches/reboots. |
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Post by steveinthecity on Mar 4, 2017 16:32:52 GMT -8
If you can find trades of them, I thought Hickman's Fantastic Four was well written and harkened back to previous decades as far as multiple plot points being visited over time. Another is the Waid/Samnee run on Daredevil that has a 60's vibe to it. There's still some good ones out there, but not consistently imo. The problem is I miss the continuity and the shared universe. I can't stand the endless relaunches/reboots. I get it. I can't even tell you how many Hulks there are or even WHY there's so many.  I used to like those comics. |
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Post by Bats on Mar 5, 2017 2:13:57 GMT -8
The problem is I miss the continuity and the shared universe. I can't stand the endless relaunches/reboots. I get it. I can't even tell you how many Hulks there are or even WHY there's so many. I used to like those comics. It's the same with DC. How many times did they reveal Batman to the public, just to put him back in the shadows again? You get comfortable with something and they go and change it... |
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I miss the way they looked. I miss the stories. I miss the continuity. 
