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Post by kav on Dec 5, 2023 18:08:03 GMT -8
I mean a tiny dot of sharpie and boom purple label-30% price downgrade.
This is just not a rational response the market should take.
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Post by Buzzetta on Dec 7, 2023 19:33:09 GMT -8
I mean a tiny dot of sharpie and boom purple label-30% price downgrade. This is just not a rational response the market should take. With comic books or other related collectables ? Let's use GI Joe for example. What I am about to describe would be seen as restored in the eyes of a comic collector. GI Joe: A Real American Hero (ARAH) 1982-1994 figures were produced with an elastic O-Ring as the "internal guts" of the figure. The o-ring is looped around a post in the higher area of the chest and back area of the figure and lopped down to a hook to connect the legs which are on an inverted T-Bar. This gives those 80's figures the range of motion. This also means that those O-Rings break down over time as all rubber bands do. This also means that figures are easily taken dismantled and parts can be swapped in and out over time as elbows degrade and crack or if the figure has damage or paint wear. This means that for certain figures it is more of an assembly of parts than it is a complete original figure. Collectors go into this knowing that O-Rings have been replaced and that arms have been taken from donor figures to create the best sample of a figure. No one cares. Comic collectors would equate installing new o-rings to replacing staples, and assembling figures with the best parts one can source as a married comic book. With GI Joe, it is better to assemble one perfect figure from three broken ones then try to sell three broken ones. |
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Post by kav on Dec 7, 2023 19:37:21 GMT -8
I mean a tiny dot of sharpie and boom purple label-30% price downgrade. This is just not a rational response the market should take. With comic books or other related collectables ? Let's use GI Joe for example. What I am about to describe would be seen as restored in the eyes of a comic collector. GI Joe: A Real American Hero (ARAH) 1982-1994 figures were produced with an elastic O-Ring as the "internal guts" of the figure. The o-ring is looped around a post in the higher area of the chest and back area of the figure and lopped down to a hook to connect the legs which are on an inverted T-Bar. This gives those 80's figures the range of motion. This also means that those O-Rings break down over time as all rubber bands do. This also means that figures are easily taken dismantled and parts can be swapped in and out over time as elbows degrade and crack or if the figure has damage or paint wear. This means that for certain figures it is more of an assembly of parts than it is a complete original figure. Collectors go into this knowing that O-Rings have been replaced and that arms have been taken from donor figures to create the best sample of a figure. No one cares. Comic collectors would equate installing new o-rings to replacing staples, and assembling figures with the best parts one can source as a married comic book. With GI Joe, it is better to assemble one perfect figure from three broken ones then try to sell three broken ones. I mean I can understand replaced staples and married pages being a value decreaser but a single dot of sharpie getting the same label as a book with almost the entire cover repainted? its the all or nothing attitude that I think needs to be reevaluated. |
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Post by Buzzetta on Dec 7, 2023 19:47:05 GMT -8
With comic books or other related collectables ? Let's use GI Joe for example. What I am about to describe would be seen as restored in the eyes of a comic collector. GI Joe: A Real American Hero (ARAH) 1982-1994 figures were produced with an elastic O-Ring as the "internal guts" of the figure. The o-ring is looped around a post in the higher area of the chest and back area of the figure and lopped down to a hook to connect the legs which are on an inverted T-Bar. This gives those 80's figures the range of motion. This also means that those O-Rings break down over time as all rubber bands do. This also means that figures are easily taken dismantled and parts can be swapped in and out over time as elbows degrade and crack or if the figure has damage or paint wear. This means that for certain figures it is more of an assembly of parts than it is a complete original figure. Collectors go into this knowing that O-Rings have been replaced and that arms have been taken from donor figures to create the best sample of a figure. No one cares. Comic collectors would equate installing new o-rings to replacing staples, and assembling figures with the best parts one can source as a married comic book. With GI Joe, it is better to assemble one perfect figure from three broken ones then try to sell three broken ones. I mean I can understand replaced staples and married pages being a value decreaser but a single dot of sharpie getting the same label as a book with almost the entire cover repainted? its the all or nothing attitude that I think needs to be reevaluated. But that's my point. Those which are commonly held as restoration with comics and as you describe would normally cause a decrease in value are welcomed with open arms. Now, when it comes to these Joes the only difference is that the Joes "can" be instantly disassembled and reverted back to their damaged and worn states whereas a comic is far more trickier to revert. A Gi Joe need only a small phillips head screwdriver to revert it back to it's original state, I readily concede that. However, GI Joe collectors do not bat an eyelid. I feel that comic collectors will get to a point where something like that might be necessary in certain Golden Age books over the next 100 years. Something like an Action Comics 1 is really only 85 years old. Will those staples which are a non-precious metal last for another 150 years? 250? As that book is a piece of Americana I expect someone to have to eventually take some restorative or conservation type actions to maintain the book. Most of these funny books will be lost to time, but I do believe that Action 1 is more important than the comic collecting hobby itself. When we see that occur I think then you will see a partial shift of the hobby. However that may not happen for a very long time. |
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Post by kav on Dec 7, 2023 19:56:54 GMT -8
I mean I can understand replaced staples and married pages being a value decreaser but a single dot of sharpie getting the same label as a book with almost the entire cover repainted? its the all or nothing attitude that I think needs to be reevaluated. But that's my point. Those which are commonly held as restoration with comics and as you describe would normally cause a decrease in value are welcomed with open arms. Now, when it comes to these Joes the only difference is that the Joes "can" be instantly disassembled and reverted back to their damaged and worn states whereas a comic is far more trickier to revert. A Gi Joe need only a small phillips head screwdriver to revert it back to it's original state, I readily concede that. However, GI Joe collectors do not bat an eyelid. I feel that comic collectors will get to a point where something like that might be necessary in certain Golden Age books over the next 100 years. Something like an Action Comics 1 is really only 85 years old. Will those staples which are a non-precious metal last for another 150 years? 250? As that book is a piece of Americana I expect someone to have to eventually take some restorative or conservation type actions to maintain the book. Most of these funny books will be lost to time, but I do believe that Action 1 is more important than the comic collecting hobby itself. When we see that occur I think then you will see a partial shift of the hobby. However that may not happen for a very long time. What about if you have a purple label with a dot of sharpie and you cover that dot with silver sharpie so it is no longer restored or even remove that tiny area of cover-the value of the book would rise by like 30% right? |
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Post by Buzzetta on Dec 7, 2023 20:05:47 GMT -8
But that's my point. Those which are commonly held as restoration with comics and as you describe would normally cause a decrease in value are welcomed with open arms. Now, when it comes to these Joes the only difference is that the Joes "can" be instantly disassembled and reverted back to their damaged and worn states whereas a comic is far more trickier to revert. A Gi Joe need only a small phillips head screwdriver to revert it back to it's original state, I readily concede that. However, GI Joe collectors do not bat an eyelid. I feel that comic collectors will get to a point where something like that might be necessary in certain Golden Age books over the next 100 years. Something like an Action Comics 1 is really only 85 years old. Will those staples which are a non-precious metal last for another 150 years? 250? As that book is a piece of Americana I expect someone to have to eventually take some restorative or conservation type actions to maintain the book. Most of these funny books will be lost to time, but I do believe that Action 1 is more important than the comic collecting hobby itself. When we see that occur I think then you will see a partial shift of the hobby. However that may not happen for a very long time. What about if you have a purple label with a dot of sharpie and you cover that dot with silver sharpie so it is no longer restored or even remove that tiny area of cover-the value of the book would rise by like 30% right? The better question is this one. What happens if there is a color breaking crease or wear on the cover. Nothing major but something minimal. Now if you fill it in then that is restoration. What if you make your signatory window small enough that when the artist signs, his signature covers over the wear spot. Yellow label or Yellow label with a purple stripe at the top? There might be some yellow labels out there that accomplished the goal of covering up the worn spot to the buyer. CGC sees it but does not consider the signature to be an attempt of restoration even though it hides the blemish. |
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Post by kav on Dec 7, 2023 20:10:30 GMT -8
What about if you have a purple label with a dot of sharpie and you cover that dot with silver sharpie so it is no longer restored or even remove that tiny area of cover-the value of the book would rise by like 30% right? The better question is this one. What happens if there is a color breaking crease or wear on the cover. Nothing major but something minimal. Now if you fill it in then that is restoration. What if you make your signatory window small enough that when the artist signs, his signature covers over the wear spot. Yellow label or Yellow label with a purple stripe at the top? There might be some yellow labels out there that accomplished the goal of covering up the worn spot to the buyer. CGC sees it but does not consider the signature to be an attempt of restoration even though it hides the blemish. Yes anything that eliminates what they consider restoration should not be considered restoration anymore. like a sig over sharpie dot-no more restoration. |
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Post by Prince Namor on Dec 7, 2023 20:42:08 GMT -8
What about if you have a purple label with a dot of sharpie and you cover that dot with silver sharpie so it is no longer restored or even remove that tiny area of cover-the value of the book would rise by like 30% right? The better question is this one. What happens if there is a color breaking crease or wear on the cover. Nothing major but something minimal. Now if you fill it in then that is restoration. What if you make your signatory window small enough that when the artist signs, his signature covers over the wear spot. Yellow label or Yellow label with a purple stripe at the top? There might be some yellow labels out there that accomplished the goal of covering up the worn spot to the buyer. CGC sees it but does not consider the signature to be an attempt of restoration even though it hides the blemish. 10+ years ago I had a Hulk #181 with a big 25¢ in black marker on the cover. I had it signed and remarked by Herb Trimpe utilizing the 25¢ in the remark, basically overwriting it. Worked perfect. |
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Post by Buzzetta on Dec 8, 2023 2:45:08 GMT -8
The better question is this one. What happens if there is a color breaking crease or wear on the cover. Nothing major but something minimal. Now if you fill it in then that is restoration. What if you make your signatory window small enough that when the artist signs, his signature covers over the wear spot. Yellow label or Yellow label with a purple stripe at the top? There might be some yellow labels out there that accomplished the goal of covering up the worn spot to the buyer. CGC sees it but does not consider the signature to be an attempt of restoration even though it hides the blemish. 10+ years ago I had a Hulk #181 with a big 25¢ in black marker on the cover. I had it signed and remarked by Herb Trimpe utilizing the 25¢ in the remark, basically overwriting it. Worked perfect. Ha! That is actually a pretty cool story. It amazes me how assessment and grading of comics compare to the assessment and grading of other collectibles. |
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Post by kav on Dec 8, 2023 18:16:50 GMT -8
10+ years ago I had a Hulk #181 with a big 25¢ in black marker on the cover. I had it signed and remarked by Herb Trimpe utilizing the 25¢ in the remark, basically overwriting it. Worked perfect. Ha! That is actually a pretty cool story. It amazes me how assessment and grading of comics compare to the assessment and grading of other collectibles. Things coin collectors hate to hear: "I polished up the coin before I brought it in!" |
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