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Post by Stu on Jan 15, 2021 16:22:27 GMT -8
I think you have to give less weight to the specific words or any one specific message, but rather look at the reactions and results of those messages in whole. He may have never once stated “tear down the Capitol! Steal the Speaker’s podium!”, but he was posting words that his “followers” were reacting to, and he in turn continued to encourage or inflame the hostility that he could see(or read) happening each time he did. That’s why a term like “American Patriots” seems an odd choice to need any interpretation, but that’s because it’s devoid of any context by itself in those tweets. Pres. Trump had earlier released a video claiming the election had been stolen along with the attendant hyperbole that has been repeated ad nauseum which Twitter, FB, and YouTube all took down. He took to Twitter espousing more of the same, Twitter warned him again and subsequently suspended his account for 12 hours. He then used another account to continue tweeting which twitter then blocked/locked(made it temporarily unusable, whatever that’s called). When the suspension was lifted, he started again with the claims of election fraud and stoking the ire of his supporters at which time Twitter said “enough”. A handful of tweets don’t tell the story. You’d need to be watching q-anon and other extreme right wing group’s posts(on multiple platforms) in reaction and response, not just to the President, but to each other to see how the protest evolved into violence, encouraged by the President. I should note, there was never any attempt to tamp down the escalating tension before, during, or after. OK, that makes more sense to me now. I kept looking at clips of what happened and the Tweets he put out and didn't see anything in particular that I'd call 'inciting violence' And to be honest, I still don't. It's a little weak IMO Twitter deleted some posts ya know
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 15, 2021 16:29:05 GMT -8
OK, that makes more sense to me now. I kept looking at clips of what happened and the Tweets he put out and didn't see anything in particular that I'd call 'inciting violence' And to be honest, I still don't. It's a little weak IMO Twitter deleted some posts ya know Trumps posts are archived on some websites and I read them.
If you hate Trump (like you do), you can use the interpretation that he incited violence.
If you don't hate Trump you won't see the interpretation that he incited violence.
But his TWEETS did not incite violence.
And Twitter took ALL of the information available in the world, INTERPRETED it themselves and made the call to cut off the communication of the most powerful man in the world.
That's some gnarly shizzle, right there.
My buddy made a very good point on Facebook today.
Just remove all politicians from Twitter so we have a level playing field, because the playing field isn't level right now.
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Post by steveinthecity on Jan 15, 2021 16:40:42 GMT -8
OK, that makes more sense to me now. I kept looking at clips of what happened and the Tweets he put out and didn't see anything in particular that I'd call 'inciting violence'
And to be honest, I still don't. It's a little weak IMO
You could take ALL of what you just typed out and simply give it a pass if it was either another president who didn't have the checkered past that Trump does OR just put the blame solely on the groups that incited the violence.
The Russia probe from 4 years ago is starting to look pretty weak. It's still developing but as docs get declassified (which is what I think Trump is trying to do) it's starting to look like a Clinton smear campaign and if you ask me, Trump has had to devote nearly as much energy in trying to clear up smear campaigns during his entire tenure as he has in just running the country.
I can understand just how he might feel.
You've probably read a lot of the insults I've been encountering on the CGC forums. Nearly all of it is made up or embellished but it takes a lot of effort to try to counter it.
And if you frame it properly (out of context with the intent of making me look like I'm an angry nut) then it can color everything you do aftewards.
Personally, I think that the Twitter / Social media bannings are a product of those smear campaigns or a part of them if big social media is in collusion with politics.
But that's the only reasonable explanation to me that I can see as to why Trump's Tweets would be INTERPRETED as inciting violence...and that is the key word Dorsey used - he INTERPRETED them that way...because that's not what they were literally saying.
And herein is the problem.
Who says Dorsey interprets things correctly? Well he does, because he is the one with access to the big Bible tied to the pulpit.
The “checkered past” is an important part Twitter’s decision. I think Mr. Dorsey has to say “interpreted” because there was no outright directive to insurrection, but rather words that encouraged that end. It can seem convoluted, but keep in mind this wasn’t something that just occurred over 24 hours, it’s been building, and then even faster following the election. As for insults on the other boards, I really hate to see that. I’m 99% certain that’s not how the members/posters would talk if it was twelve of them sitting around a large table together. Not sure why people are so comfortable saying some of the things they do, but this all circles back to parker1865’s dissatisfaction with the WC. One final thought regarding Mr. Dorsey or others in his position: It’s generally accepted a moderator, judge, facilitator, CEO, military commander, parent, etc. will at some point make interpretations on actions, speech, or other events and make a decision that will affect those individuals, groups, etc. I don’t know how the twitter hierarchy is structured, but someone has to be the face and voice for any decision, particularly a decision (or edict) that’s drawn so much attention.
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Post by Stu on Jan 15, 2021 16:50:27 GMT -8
Saw a great tweet that lampoons the Anchorman meme "Well, that escalated quickly": It said "Well, that escalated steadily for four years."
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Post by steveinthecity on Jan 15, 2021 16:55:25 GMT -8
Saw a great tweet that lampoons the Anchorman meme "Well, that escalated quickly": It said "Well, that escalated steadily for four years." Appropriate.
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 15, 2021 17:35:01 GMT -8
The “checkered past” is an important part Twitter’s decision. I think Mr. Dorsey has to say “interpreted” because there was no outright directive to insurrection, but rather words that encouraged that end. It can seem convoluted, but keep in mind this wasn’t something that just occurred over 24 hours, it’s been building, and then even faster following the election. As for insults on the other boards, I really hate to see that. I’m 99% certain that’s not how the members/posters would talk if it was twelve of them sitting around a large table together. Not sure why people are so comfortable saying some of the things they do, but this all circles back to parker1865’s dissatisfaction with the WC. One final thought regarding Mr. Dorsey or others in his position: It’s generally accepted a moderator, judge, facilitator, CEO, military commander, parent, etc. will at some point make interpretations on actions, speech, or other events and make a decision that will affect those individuals, groups, etc. I don’t know how the twitter hierarchy is structured, but someone has to be the face and voice for any decision, particularly a decision (or edict) that’s drawn so much attention. The problem is that a large portion of the 'checkered past' is an illusion.
Like we're seeing about the Russian investigation when Dems were CONVINCED that Russia colluded with Trump right from the inauguration when in fact it's looking like a smear campaign.
So if a large portion of the 'checkered past' isn't exactly checkered then that changes how Trump is perceived.
Twitter is NOT in a position of authority. They're unelected and yet can act as though they are (meaning they can overturn the words of elected officials that are not outright doing anything wrong).
Something needs to change because what they're doing right now is not the right way to handle things.
Way too much power in the hands of just a rich hipster and way too much subjectivity for something so serious.
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Post by steveinthecity on Jan 15, 2021 17:42:16 GMT -8
The problem is that a large portion of the 'checkered past' is an illusion.
Like we're seeing about the Russian investigation when Dems were CONVINCED that Russia colluded with Trump right from the inauguration when in fact it's looking like a smear campaign.
So if a large portion of the 'checkered past' isn't exactly checkered then that changes how Trump is perceived.
Twitter is NOT in a position of authority. They're unelected and yet can act as though they are (meaning they can overturn the words of elected officials that are not outright doing anything wrong).
Something needs to change because what they're doing right now is not the right way to handle things.
Way too much power in the hands of just a rich hipster and way too much subjectivity for something so serious.
The past I refer to is only the period in which he held office and from what we’ve all seen in his public dealings political or otherwise. Twitter is the authority above all else of Twitter. The office or occupation of any of twitters users is irrelevant. Nothing was overturned. Have you seen the videos or read Pres. Trump’s speech just before the protest got ugly? He called out the VP, putting him in direct danger. The crowd didn’t come up with “Hang Pence!” On their own. How should this have been handled? Was there a better way?
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 15, 2021 18:12:58 GMT -8
I'm not sure what to do here.
This is all knew territory here. Twitter, the removal of Parler from apps and servers....this is all new territory but one thing I am sure of is that it's not over and it wont' end anytime soon. Stuff like this only deepens the divide between the left and the right and entrenches them in their own positions.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump, Elon Musk and friends were putting together a new battle plan to put up a site for more open public discussion.
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Post by steveinthecity on Jan 15, 2021 18:52:03 GMT -8
I'm not sure what to do here.
This is all knew territory here. Twitter, the removal of Parler from apps and servers....this is all new territory but one thing I am sure of is that it's not over and it wont' end anytime soon. Stuff like this only deepens the divide between the left and the right and entrenches them in their own positions.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump, Elon Musk and friends were putting together a new battle plan to put up a site for more open public discussion.
Yeah, I think something will come along not necessarily to supplant fb or Twitter, but provide additional avenues for communication. There’ll probably be a new twist none of us imagined, but yet it’ll seem so obvious once we see it. i don’t know how I get around the whole left/right divide myself, except I think I’m probably parts of both. I don’t think the math works for someone to be all one or the other, but I think many expect others to be just that.
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Post by vintagecomics on Jan 16, 2021 7:26:12 GMT -8
I'm not sure what to do here.
This is all knew territory here. Twitter, the removal of Parler from apps and servers....this is all new territory but one thing I am sure of is that it's not over and it wont' end anytime soon. Stuff like this only deepens the divide between the left and the right and entrenches them in their own positions.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump, Elon Musk and friends were putting together a new battle plan to put up a site for more open public discussion.
Yeah, I think something will come along not necessarily to supplant fb or Twitter, but provide additional avenues for communication. There’ll probably be a new twist none of us imagined, but yet it’ll seem so obvious once we see it. i don’t know how I get around the whole left/right divide myself, except I think I’m probably parts of both. I don’t think the math works for someone to be all one or the other, but I think many expect others to be just that. That is one of the fundamental problems with the system, that there are only 2 parties to choose from. That's something that has to change.
Bret Weinstein a popular activist (among other things he's a famous scientist and a rights fighter) was looking to form a party called Unity 2020 that was a 3rd option. It didn't seem to get off the ground very far but it's a step in the right direction.
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Post by Stu on Jan 16, 2021 8:13:43 GMT -8
As for insults on the other boards, I really hate to see that. I’m 99% certain that’s not how the members/posters would talk if it was twelve of them sitting around a large table together. Not sure why people are so comfortable saying some of the things they do, but this all circles back to parker1865’s dissatisfaction with the WC. All I know is anything I've said to The Weasel in the past 18 years I'd say straight to his face, and then some. And right after I blocked his feather kick I'd stomp that weasel.
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parker1865
TCBF Member
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 1,325
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Post by parker1865 on Jan 16, 2021 8:25:05 GMT -8
well, that escalated steadily for the last 18 years. the maxine waters of the cbf. all hat no cattle.
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Post by steveinthecity on Jan 16, 2021 8:31:54 GMT -8
As for insults on the other boards, I really hate to see that. I’m 99% certain that’s not how the members/posters would talk if it was twelve of them sitting around a large table together. Not sure why people are so comfortable saying some of the things they do, but this all circles back to parker1865’s dissatisfaction with the WC. All I know is anything I've said to The Weasel in the past 18 years I'd say straight to his face, and then some. And right after I blocked his feather kick I'd stomp that weasel Running low on Chem-dizzle?
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Post by Stu on Jan 16, 2021 8:41:53 GMT -8
All I know is anything I've said to The Weasel in the past 18 years I'd say straight to his face, and then some. And right after I blocked his feather kick I'd stomp that weasel Running low on Chem-dizzle? Can't wake and bake when you have kids Plus I was a little ticked they deleted my last post last night (directed at Roy) but venting helps get over it. But then reading The Weasel's posts ramp me right back up again!
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parker1865
TCBF Member
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 1,325
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Post by parker1865 on Jan 16, 2021 8:47:44 GMT -8
calm down there, rambo. you will hurt your knife and bow finger, typing useless vitriol over and over and over.
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