New Case Discussion Thread (Sequential Examples)

So, I have a few Black Panther #1 Negative Space variants. All CGC 9.8.

When I first got them back, I checked all the new slabs. The Black Panthers showed a slight case of waves, but not horrendous. We took scans before one went up on eBay, but unfortunately didn't take any pictures.

I received this book on Thursday June 2nd.
Here's a scan of it from June 8th:

Here's a scan from today, June 13th:

It's a bit more noticeable in the second scan, but still a struggle to identify there's an issue. With a picture, changing the angle, you can really see what's going on.
Here's a pic from today, June 13th:

So, the book pictured above was listed on eBay and just sold yesterday. The book seems to be slowly getting crunched in this holder, so I don't want to send it out to the guy until he sees the picture of what it looks like now. I'll let him decide if he wants to continue with the transaction or not.

Graded on 4/4, will be sending back for reholder. I didn't notice the waves at first but they are definitely there. I'm not sure if they were present when I received them. I'm assuming these were one of the first to be slabbed in the new cases (based on the grade date).

I was going to refrain from saying anything in this thread, but I felt that the company should really offer a more transparent response than what they've done to this point.

I've spoken to Harshen, Paul and Matt. During Wizard Philly I had a long discussion with Harshen, Paul and Shawn. Harshen primarily relayed the company's position about what they had done to review the problem and look to test to see what could be causing the issues. They believed right before wizard philly (so this is about 10 days ago now) they had determined what were the various causes of some of the issues (newton rings notwithstanding). The problem as they understood it, had been fixed. They offered some specifics that are not all fully public.

I spoke to Matt a few days ago to express some frustration at the glacial pace as to relaying what the fix was. Simply saying we're confident that we fixed it doesn't actually address the issue. One of the problems right now is that we don't know the precise nature or scope of the problem, so people offer their anecdotal evidence. CGC, which has data and analytics to be able to determine the scope of the issue and what the fix implemented accomplished (at least with some detail) refuses, for some unbeknownst reason, to disclose more detail. I imagine this is a corporate policy. While I understand the philosophy, it has been consistently disproven as a successful way to responsibly manage problems with a product.

To date, I've still not gotten a reliable answer, and neither has any one on the boards.

Like me, many of you are completely frustrated by the lack of transparency. I've had more direct access and an ability to at least speak to the people in charge and I still don't have any better answers.

I want to believe that they have the problem solved, but I'm not sure how that will be proven, when people continue to have slabs pop up that have issues. It allows for speculation and conjecture, instead of facts and evidence.

As I've communicated to CGC many times now, people beyond the boards, beyond hard core comic collectors, are hearing of issues about the slabs. Fear is spreading, which has an impact about not just the reliability of getting books graded, but from buyers as well. These aren't people monitoring the boards. The news is getting picked up beyond some message boards or Facebook groups. It's starting to spread by word of mouth. These are well described phenomena (malcom gladwell talks about the spread of information in one of his books) in terms of how information is communicated and how it's an epidemic that can quickly spiral out of control.

I'm not sure CGC is appreciating this, so I'm stating it publicly.

This is not a one off problem. Maybe it's true that it's not as widespread as may be feared. Maybe it's true there's a "fix" for more recently holdered books. But I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to know or trust it until the issue is clearly and adequately addressed. How will people be able to trust the information provided unless it becomes specific, instead of vague.

Major dealers and other mid level and even some lower end dealers are all talking of stopping submissions, quietly recommending to discontinue using CGC to their customers. Telling me that submissions aren't down yet isn't an answer, because you wouldn't necessarily see the effect quite yet of the information becoming more widespread. More importantly, if the marketplace begins to reject new holders simply out of a fear that may result, submission won't dip until that impact becomes more established, but by then, the damage is done. I submitted books myself at Wizard Philly. But the trouble is, as some have noted, some of the effects aren't seen right away, some as late as 60 days later exhibit waviness.

I hope the company will offer data and transparency instead promises and vague responses. Otherwise, I think it could have a significant impact that they are miscalculating currently.

We made the decision to close the thread about the new CGC holder. While we welcome an open dialogue that includes constructive criticism, we will not allow people to use the CGC message boards to make posts that are misleading, malicious and untrue. After many people provided legitimate feedback, which we acknowledged and addressed, some continued to use this thread to post claims that were completely false. CGC Customer Service attempted to follow up on these claims and complaints only to find that the poster could not substantiate them. This has included numerous posts with images of fabricated holder damage and book damage, as well as claims about books supposedly holdered in Philadelphia with certification numbers that prove otherwise.

The vast majority of feedback that CGC has received about its new holder has been positive. As we stated previously, there were a few relatively minor issues with the new holder, particularly an issue that resulted in a slight wavy appearance. Immediately upon hearing this feedback, CGC conducted a thorough investigation, determined the causes and took corrective action. We reached out -- and continue to reach out -- to customers who we believe may have been affected and offer a solution.

We are not aware of a single book that was damaged as a result of any of these issues with the new holder. We realize, however, that these issues can be an inconvenience for those affected. If anyone thinks they have a holder that exhibits a slight wavy appearance, CGC would be happy to evaluate it and, if we agree with your assessment, reholder your book at no charge, as well as cover your shipping expenses. If we feel that reholdering is not warranted, we will still cover your shipping expenses. Any such returns will receive Fast Track service.

It is no surprise that a few minor issues would be found after a major update to CGC's holder. The overwhelming response has been positive, however, and this has resulted in record-breaking submissions for CGC at recent shows. At our recent Philadelphia on-site grading event, thousands of newly graded books were returned to customers without issue. Reholder submissions to move books from our old holder to our new holder continue to arrive at CGC in large numbers.

CGC will always stand by its product and services. We listen to our customers and if there is an issue, we will act quickly to address it. We have done that here and we will continue to do it as we build upon our position as the world's first, largest and most trusted third-party comic book grading service.

We sincerely appreciate your feedback and support.

Thank you,
CGC